Dismantling the ‘Torah’ doctrine series (part 1)
Do you remember what it was like before we were changed by His Spirit, right? We had no desire to obey and absolutely no power to execute even if we wanted to.
(The above statement is my highlighted comment in this post ~speaking of the people and the events at Mt Sinai)
The word “Torah” is a staple in many of our vocabularies since finding deeper truths. There are statements like:
- “I am Torah observant”
- “The Torah is written on our hearts and minds”
- “Abraham kept Torah”
- “Heaven and earth will pass away but the Torah will not”
- “Messiah Yahusha is the living Torah made flesh”
The scripturally accurate statements are:
- “I keep Yahuah’s covenant”
- “The Ten Commandments are written on our hearts and minds”
- “Abraham kept the instructions given him”
- “Heaven and earth will pass away but His Covenant, The Ten Words, will not”
- “Messiah Yahusha is the living Word made flesh”
To make a long post very short and point to our COVENANT teachings for further discovery, this “Dismantling the word ‘Torah’ series” is designed to make a person THINK. Torah never (not once in scripture) is defined as “The First Five Books of Moses”. But rather, the simple definition and application within every verse of interpretation is “Instructions, Directions, or Teaching”.
Law is mentioned in 595 verses within scripture. Covenant is mentioned in 315 verses. Yet, in teaching circles Covenant is not ever the emphasis of scripture nor are the individual 8 covenants (there are only 8) that Yahuah made with mankind. The covenant remain unidentified and they are not properly broken down by the TERMS and CONDITIONS within each covenant. The main reason for a lack of teaching on this subject is because without identifying all 8 covenants (we have yet to find anybody identify all 8) it is impossible to view scripture through a seamless covenant story knit together by these 8 covenants. The New Covenant is literally disconnected from its covenant foundation so both Christians and Torah people alike are left with doctrines. For this reason important reason of revealing the covenant plan to my brothers and sisters in Yahusha we are putting the test to the ‘Torah’ doctrine in this article.
THE COVENANT PLAN OF YAHUAH is deeply hidden and has taken us several years to assemble the pieces of this covenant plan. Upon assembling this plan we see how the doctrines of “Grace” for the Christian and “Torah” for the Hebrew Roots person results in many doctrinal errors, misunderstandings, and wrong interpretation of verses. Ultimately, both groups (Christian & Torah) clearly see the glaring problems of the other camp of believers. This post is designed to equip the Torah believer with the proper understanding to help rescue our brothers and sisters breaking their blood covenant they entered with their Savior.
As mentioned of the sheer numbers of the times Covenant is mentioned, it is Covenant that actually defines “Law”. So, therefore “Law” cannot scripturally be defined accurately without seeing “Law” or “Instructions” are a function of “Covenant”.
Before we begin part 1 of this series I have come to realize a disclaimer is necessary.When people hear a message contrary to their doctrine they believe what is being said is coming against their core belief system. When people say “they keep Torah” what they are really saying is they keep kosher food laws and the Feast days.It’s the strangest thing but if this is not mentioned before we begin, this post and these covenant facts are immediately discarded. So, please understand this series designed to make people THINK is to prayerfully point them to seeking THE COVENANT PLAN OF YAHUAH so they can see ALL SCRIPTURE is reconciled through understanding THE COVENANT PLAN:TORAH DISCLOSURE1) Clean and unclean meat is a COVENANT issue, beginning when meats were introduced through the COVENANT with Noah. Noah brought clean animals on the ark 7x7 and unclean 2x2 (one male and one female). Eating meat was first established through Noah (for 1692 years from Adam only plants was food for man). Eating an unclean animal has never been acceptable for anybody to eat ~ let alone a believer in covenant with the Savior.2) Three Feasts were the original COVENANT ANNIVERSARIES of the WEDDING that tragically went wrong at Mt Sinai (resulting in a 1500 year period which Yahusha Messiah as the Angel of Yahuah had to come in the flesh to CHANGE THE PEOPLE.A) PASSOVER/UNLEAVENED BREAD = when Yahuah carried the first generation ofAbraham's descendants on eagles wings to HimselfB) FEAST OF WEEKS/SHAVU'OT/PENTACOST = when Yahuah first their covenant,the Ten Words (Commandments)C) TABERNACLES = when they were supposed to celebrate the time theyentered the LAND promised them and dwelt together (they fell short ofthis promise)
Now that we have the disclosure out of the way. Below is a post of the perspective of a Torah perspective and my answer. I am withholding the name of the individual as I have not received their permission to repost our discussion. I am prayerful that this person is considering what I have stated in their observation. I am labelling them “PERSON 1” and a second person who entered the conversation as “PERSON 2”.
This post and comments I believe are extremely important to read how a Torah indoctrination leads to so many wrong observations and errant doctrines.
THE POST SUBJECT: THE GOLDEN CALF
PERSON 1 (initial post)
Disobedient or frightened?
When Moses disappeared up the mountain for that extended time, the Israelites - who had walked with Father all the time during the Exodus up to then - knew they needed protection but felt abandoned and frightened about the future.
So, under Aaron's leadership, they manufactured a god, the Golden Calf, in a vain attempt to provide spiritual guidance and protection from on high!
Yes Father chastised them but He also showed enormous understanding - for not even Aaron was killed on the spot.
This is all in His Word and it defies understanding when some people claim that no one could keep the Torah/Law in their gross ignorance!
It surely was not a matter of 'could not' - it was a case of 'would not'!
You would think that such ignoramuses would at least have read the Word before judging His Word! Because that is what they have done - sans understanding and guidance of His real Spirit, obviously!
Kirk Carmichael
Brother, you are processing your thoughts through a "Torah" doctrine. How can you read Exodus 32 and not see how the Father had ZERO understanding. He had not one iota of understanding as He was GOING TO KILL THEM ALL and make a nation out of Moses and HE DID "BLOT THEM OUT OF HIS BOOK” (Exodus 32:33) which eliminated their inheritance ~ the entire point of the story.
We are also told He turned them them over to “the hosts of heaven” and their vain imagination and the first generation DIED IN THE WILDERNESS. Not one of them of the first generation entered HIS LAND. There was only ONE THING that saved them (for the short period of time): MOSES KNEW YHWH MADE THE BLOOD COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM AND INTERCEDED ACCORDINGLY. This set into motion the ALTERNATIVE COVENANT ARRANGEMENT called “The Law of Moses” (not defined as a “First five books of Moses" doctrine but a TEMPORARY COVENANT which was “added for transgressions” and “the schoolmaster to lead them to Messiah”).
This is all written in the synopsis I gave you yesterday but you “were not ready” to look at it. This incorrect perspective and indoctrination spills over into all theology, as seen here. It really is huge to enter into the story and get our definitions and story line correct to reach our Christian brothers and sisters stuck in the Babylonian religion. You have a very good spiritual understanding as it appears of the spirit realm ~ this needs to be understood. This is crucial.
Please enter into the story here at Mt Sinai and re-examine what happened:
PERSON 1 REPLY
Kirk Carmichael - believe it or not I am processing your discussion about the 7 trips but in your eagerness to punt your discovery you missed the message in this post.
The message is based on many on this forum stating that the Israelites COULD NOT keep Torah. My contention is that they did NOT WANT TO keep Torah - huge difference.
Thus the message is that Torah is not difficult to keep and that those claiming otherwise actually just don't have a clue of what they are really claiming even if Moses went up and down 20 times and even if only a couple of them made it into the promised land.
Kirk Carmichael
But see brother, this word “Torah” just means “instructions”. It wasn’t a matter of not wanting to keep “Torah”, it was flat out rebellion to not listen to the “instructions” He JUST GAVE THEM. The overriding theme of scripture from Adam to the last Adam (Yahusha) was the people needed to be CHANGED… this is the “born again” experience we have encountered by His covenant, the Ten Words, being written on our hearts and minds.
Do you remember what it was like before we were changed by His Spirit, right? We had no desire to obey and absolutely no power to execute even if we wanted to.
We have a covenant Creator who establishes His laws via COVENANT. Laws are not created in a vacuum. When Abraham “obeyed his laws” in Genesis 26:5 it was speaking of him obeying specifically what he was told to do. That’s what “law” means: “instructions”. You or I nor the Israelites were told to put their son on an alter and sacrifice him ~ Abraham was given “instructions” to do so… likewise “leaving his land and family to the land He would show him” and to “be circumcised at age 99”, etc.
So, please look at how Paul wrote accordingly of this COVENANT PLAN. (Paul’s writings will all make perfect sense by seeing this mystery)
(speaking of “the law” given at Mt Sinai and COMPARING it to being CHANGED by believing in the promise of believing in the Son)
ROMANS 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there IS NO LAW (NO COVENANT) there is no transgression
Those at Mt Sinai had no promise to "believe and be accounted as righteousness" in which would CHANGE them like Abraham or you or I in the New Covenant:
GALATIANS 3:21 For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
COMPARING THE BROKEN COVENANT WITH ADAM TO MT SINAI (WHICH IS DEFINED AS SINNING ACCORDING TO THE LIKENESS OF ADAM) THAT NOBODY BETWEEN ADAM AND MOSES SINNED BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT A COVENANT BY WHICH THEY COULD BREAK:
ROMANS 5:12-14
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For UNTIL THE LAW ***THE COVENANT AT MT SINAI*** sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed WHEN THERE IS NO LAW ***NO COVENANT***). Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had NOT SINNED ACCORDING TO THE LIKENESS OF THE TRANSGRESSION OF ADAM, who is a type of Him who was to come.
SO HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED LEADING UP TO THE GOLDEN CALF:
TRIP 1: OFFER OF “BEING A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS AND HOLY NATION” AND CONDITIONS: THEY MUST “OBEY HIS VOICE AND KEEPING HIS COVENANT”
TRIP 2: MOSES BRINGS BACK THE PEOPLES ACCEPTANCE
TRIP 3: THE PEOPLE DO NOT GO UP THE MOUNTAIN OUT OF FEAR SO MOSES GOES BACK DOWN TO THE PEOPLE ***AT THE BOTTOM*** YHWH SPOKE HIS COVENANT, THE TEN WORDS/COMMANDMENTS
TRIP 4: THE PEOPLE ***REJECT HIS VOICE*** AND SAY TO MOSES THEY WILL HEAR FROM MOSES BUT DO NOT WANT YHWH TO SPEAK TO THEM ANYMORE OR THEY DIE ***BOTTOM OF THE MOUNTAIN*** THEY BLOOD RATIFY THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT SPOKEN TO MOSES THAT THE PEOPLE AGREE TO
HERE ARE SOME OF THE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN THE PEOPLE AS THEY BLOOD RATIFY (MAKE A BLOOD COVENANT) THE AGREEMENT:
EXODUS 20:22-26
Then YHWH said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘You have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. You shall not make anything to be with Me—gods of silver or gods of gold you shall not make for yourselves. An altar of earth you shall make for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen. In every place where I record My name I will come to you, and I will bless you. And if you make Me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stone; for if you use your tool on it, you have profaned it. Nor shall you go up by steps to My altar, that your nakedness may not be exposed on it.’
NO LESS THAN 40 DAYS LATER THEY ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY AGREED THEY WOULD NOT DO, BUT THIS TIME THEIR OBEDIENCE WAS BOUND BY A BLOOD COVENANT AGREEMENT. IF YOU UNDERSTAND CONTRACTS WHEN YOU GO TO COURT YOU ARE BOUND BY A CONTRACT. IN ANCIENT UNDERSTANDING DEATH IS THE RESULT OF VIOLATING A BLOOD COVENANT.
PERSON 2
Kirk Carmichael, you have made some very astute points... and i commend the church doctrine from Isralite doctrine.... however, the Torah is more than instructions and many try to simplify it... The Greeks are more accurate when from their perspective by saying Infallible Law.... Requirements is far more accurate thatn instructions... simply saying instruction is ONLY applying a tenth of what the word conveys, it also includes discipline, as well as instructions.. it also renders a directive.. a specific mannar and way to submit to the Towrah...the TEN WORDS are an absolute requirement for salvation... the blood covenat is the blood that flows through the veins... life is in the blood of Moses and Aaron.. THAt is the ONLY blood that can produce the Messiah... Miraim the daughet of Moses and Aaron.... the shem Kohan/KHN in the ancient vernacular is identical to Malak/Tzedek... Cheif/Soveriegn/authority... the abstract Greek has made the term King and Priest... the best the translators could make with Greek language... shalom shalom
When we see a name, such as "King David" we see the word "King" as a title and "David" as a name. In our western mind a title describes a character trait while a name is simply an identifier. In the Hebrew language there is no such distinction between names and titles. Both words, King and David, are descriptions of character traits. The Hebrew word melekh (king) is "one who reigns," while daviyd (David) is "one who is loved". Both of these words are titles, describing the character of David. It is also common to identify the word "Elohiym" (Elohiym) as a title and YHWH (Yahweh) as a name. What we do not realize is that both of these are character traits. YHWH is both a word and title meaning "one who exists" and Elohiym is a word and a title meaning "one who has power and authority". The Hebrew word "shem" more literally means "character". When the Bible speaks of taking Elohiym's name to the nations, he is not speaking about the name itself but his character. When we are commanded to not take Elohiym's name in vain, this literally means not to represent his character in a false manner. This is similar to our expression, "have a good name," which is not about the name itself but the character of the one with that name......
Many try to make YHWH a personal NAME, when it is ALWAYS HIS character... i am YHWH i can NOT change... describes the character... as never changing.. the Infallible Law of the Universe.. or the Absolute Instructions/Reqitrements/Discipline... shalom shalom
Kirk Carmichael
Hello Zayin ~ have you heard the phrase: you can't see the "Forest for the Trees"? The short definition is: "paying obsessive attention to detail and failing to see the big picture". By applying these verses and concepts you mention you make valid points of "The Trees" and do not see "The Forest".
If we were to spend time together to walk chronologically from Adam and lay the covenant foundation I assure you I would lay so much granular detail you could not nor would want to debate as long as truth is our goal and we both have open hearts. I have been laying this foundation with two other brothers and we have all stayed humble and open to correction. I remain humble and open to correction but you can't just swoop in and repeat a verse here or there (as Christians support their doctrines the same) to support a doctrine of "Torah" that is not a doctrine at all. There were 8 covenants (no more and no less) that our Father established His plan through ~ the first 7 all play a function in the "first covenant".
So, again by sitting together and examining the terms and conditions I am laying out the "Forest" and then you can lay "the trees" and place them where they fit. If you are unwilling to look at the granular chronological detail I present but just repeat concepts to me thinking you are uprooting this immovable foundation, in my experience debating is extremely unfruitful as it appears you have convinced yourself that you know everything.
I would love to walk you through what we have discovered but it only can properly be examined at the microscopic level of the hundreds of pieces that make up the story of scripture... What we read is not a doctrine, but a living story of a Creator attempting to walk with His creation. The means He attempted and still attempts to do so is BY COVENANT.
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